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Posted: April 7, 2014, 14:21 Post #18
It's not fallacious; you're looking at this equation like we are simple robots that burn energy, morale and attention span in a linear manner with an unlimited fuel tank to draw from--we don't. If we exert energy to do Task A (a simply task), then do Task B (a difficult task), whether that's mental or physical, we'll use X amount of our brain or bodies "power" to do these tasks. In this case, pretend X = 1000J. You can still look at this equation like we're robots, and theoretically you can still use robots to simulate the situation; however, the robots cannot simply simulate aim and logic. It is true that you can train morale and whatnot but for fairness, you have to look at the situation where people have equal aim, equal brain, equal ability to sustain morale, equal ability to sustain attention span etc.

If we exert energy to do Task B (a difficult task) and then A (a simple task), we'll use X amount of our brain or bodies "power" to do these tasks. In this case, X will not be 1000J. If we've participated in a difficult task, physically, mentally or otherwise, our ability to do a simple task thereafter uses a different amount of "power." If we do a simple task and then a difficult task, the difficult task uses a different amount of "power" than if you start off by doing the difficult task. The math doesn't even out just because you swap the tasks, and that's why if you run for a mile and work out, you'll feel a lot different than if you work out and then run for a mile.

Difficult Team + Burn Energy + Swap to Easy Team + Burn Energy = Different fuel used than Easy Team + Burn Energy + Swap to Difficult Team + Burn Energy. I use the term "energy" loosely, it's morale, physical energy used, attention span and more.

As far as research has shown (and in the absence of proof, CTF defaults to a better design than that of which is questionable or we do not have enough data to prove is falsifiable) humans do not have absolute focus for a very long time. I believe that if we were to illustrate focus as a graph, the line would not simply be flat and then drop when we lose focus, it would be up and down but it would reach a peak and then drop.

What I am trying to point out is that the human brain uses energy differently according to what it has done previously, it focuses differently according to previous or current motivation or activity and it does not have a fuel tank big enough to power the full 30 rounds of CS with decent efficiency. With this said, one side gets an advantage. You can swap the sides of the game but unless you swap the human's metaphorical fuel tank, there has to be unfairness.

You can look at this and say, if you know you have limited fuel for attention span, it's best to only use some of that "fuel" to start with and later use lots but at that point you'd be gambling how much "fuel" you're opponent is going to use and that's not skill, that's hoping you win the lotto.

I agree with everything else you've said pretty much but I do think that companies creating graphically pleasing games benefits us more in the long run. It doesn't benefit us for competitive gaming, but computers as a whole are benefited from companies trying to invent and manufacture innovative products. Computer games help test those products. I believe there is a plus side to the atrocity that competitive FPS gaming has become.
Edited by N/A at April 7, 2014, 14:39

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Duane Jones
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 2:52 Post #19
[quote=nick][quote=Jungle]

There is a players.cfg which contains your general settings (autoswitch priority, binds, name, sensitivity, whatever) but it's not a readable file. Aside from that there are no other cfg files. 'help' or 'man' in the console will return the full list of cmds and variables.
[/quote]

Hey guys, I've been browsing through the forums and elsewhere for several hours looking for a complete list of the cmds and variables that can be manipulated within the console.

When I type in 'help' or 'man' into the console, I only end up seeing the last few commands available--the list populates so fast and it's length exceeds the size of my console window, so I can't actually see what all the cmds are.

Any sort of help here would be greatly appreciated! thanks




EDIT: Nevermind, I'm retarded. I just found out that using 'page up/down' keys scrolls the console....oops.

EDIT: Uh...even seeing the full list of cmds, I dont see where I can mess with binds. Is it possible to re-bind keys within purefaction?
Edited by Duane Jones at January 17, 2015, 2:57

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Duane Jones
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 3:29 Post #20
Yeah, I'm mostly referring to the purefaction binds (f1, f2, etc). Damn!

I'm about to start work on a segmented speed run of the game on impossible difficulty and I wanted to mess with some of the binds that aren't listed in the game options. Amongst other things. I'll make a more detailed post soon. You guys seem to know more about the game and its engine than anywhere/anyone else. Woo hoo!

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Duane Jones
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 3:41 Post #21
Ha! Yeah, I'm not too worried about that. The keybinds aren't that much of a deal.

I'm mostly curious about engine specific stuff that I know nothing about. And have zero skills to figure out. Things like character velocity, possibilites of quicksave 'abuse' (such as is used in Half-Life runs), etc. Like I said, I'll make a more detailed post either later tonight or sometime in the morning. I'm pumped that there is a knowledge community involved in this game still.



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nick
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 3:58 Post #22
Quoting Duane Jones
Yeah, I'm mostly referring to the purefaction binds (f1, f2, etc). Damn!

I'm about to start work on a segmented speed run of the game on impossible difficulty and I wanted to mess with some of the binds that aren't listed in the game options. Amongst other things. I'll make a more detailed post soon. You guys seem to know more about the game and its engine than anywhere/anyone else. Woo hoo!


Goober and I looked into this a bit but are way too lazy to actually do it. You might be able to shave time off the SDA run by killing Capek/Misato with the flamethrower (it pops nano shields really fast). I'm not sure if you'll have a flamethrower at that point in the game but yeah. Goober may know some other skips. I'm kind of excited to see what you'll find.

Also, I'm not sure how the speed run community handles this for PC games but I'm under the impression that versions of games which run faster are usually favored (usually the Chinese/Japanese releases). The official RF client (1.2) runs ~10% faster than it should on modern hardware. PF fixes this for obvious reasons.

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digi
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 4:07 Post #23
Quoting nick

I'm kind of excited to see what you'll find.

+1. It's almost sad that RF doesn't have any massively abusable movement mechanics (like HL etc) but you might have some luck with gamesave abuse and stuff. It's territory we really haven't looked into. You get to be the first!


Quoting Haze202

Well if digi is feeling generous he could rebind the purefaction keys for you, but your more likely to win the jackpot on the lottery than him doing that :8

I'm much more likely to help a speedrunner than a rude person. Duane you can PM me if you need anything custom that would make it easier for you.


Also there were French and German official versions of the game and also a Russian fandub/sub. I'm not sure if the cutscenes or anything like that might be shorter in FR/GR versions. It would probably be dependent on the audio and I'm not sure the non-English versions even had different audio. I'll see if I can dig up the files.


Might want to play with changing framerate as well. A lot of stuff in RF is very framerate-dependent although I'm not sure how much effect it has overall. At 30FPS the player has a tendency to bounce when falling or moving quickly. At 150FPS some events run slightly fast.

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Duane Jones
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 4:13 Post #24

Goober and I looked into this a bit but are way too lazy to actually do it. You might be able to shave time off the SDA run by killing Capek/Misato with the flamethrower (it pops nano shields really fast). I'm not sure if you'll have a flamethrower at that point in the game but yeah. Goober may know some other skips. I'm kind of excited to see what you'll find.

Also, I'm not sure how the speed run community handles this for PC games but I'm under the impression that versions of games which run faster are usually favored (usually the Chinese/Japanese releases). The official RF client (1.2) runs ~10% faster than it should on modern hardware. PF fixes this for obvious reasons.
[/quote]

As far as I know, within the SDA rules at least, it's important to run using the 'original' version, or whatever version comes closest to running the same as the original version. There is the possibility of having multiple categories for the same game (like how there are different times for Mario 64 depending on whether it's played on a cartridge or on the wii/wiiU virtual console which has faster load times). IMO, purefaction is the most acceptable way to play the game for an SDA speedrun. I'll have to look into that 1.2 version of the RF client though.

But yeah, I'm excited to work on it. And as I keep saying, I'll make a more detailed post in the morning. Right now, there are people running the game in less than one hour on easy difficulty, which is about 2 minutes faster than the current segmented run listed on SDA. As far as I know, there hasn't been a full run (segmented or single segment) played on the hardest difficulty.

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Duane Jones
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 4:19 Post #25
Oh man, that would be awesome Digi, I'll PM you shortly.

I'd also be super interested in whatever you can dig up regarding foreign language versions of the game. I'm no stranger to segmenting a game using different languages. My current WR run of Metro 2033 used varying language dialogue heavily to save time on NPC dialogue and cutscenes.

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nick
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 4:29 Post #26
PF would be the closest to how the game ran back in the day. 1.2 was the last patch for the original retail release. 1.21 is the current version that ships with the GOG/Steam release and is more less identical to 1.2. Both run way fast.

Until now I didn't realize any runs other than the SDA run from ages ago had actually happened. And they used the flamethrower on Capek, heh. Shows how out of touch I am with this game now. I was sure that was still obscure knowledge (had no idea until D2k told me in 09). :p

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digi
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 4:32 Post #27
The only thing I know for sure that gets changed in the gr/fr versions is the decals on the walls ("docking bay" type stuff) and the dialog text. The decal textures are in maps_gr/maps_fr.vpp which aren't included with the English release. The foreign language subtitles are actually included in the tables.vpp files that come with the English version too. I think they are activated by the maps_* file being present but I'll check on that.

If anyone here actually has a copy of the gr/fr versions please get in touch. I know we have some German people here. I'm interested whether or not audio.vpp is the same.

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Duane Jones
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 5:07 Post #28
Quoting nick
PF would be the closest to how the game ran back in the day. 1.2 was the last patch for the original retail release. 1.21 is the current version that ships with the GOG/Steam release and is more less identical to 1.2. Both run way fast.

Until now I didn't realize any runs other than the SDA run from ages ago had actually happened. And they used the flamethrower on Capek, heh. Shows how out of touch I am with this game now. I was sure that was still obscure knowledge (had no idea until D2k told me in 09). :p


If I recall correctly, the single-segment runners on the SDA found the flamethrower strat on Capek less than one year ago. It was found(posted) by a French runner, Magnaud, in March 2014. It must have been relatively obscure.

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SeeLkaDooM94
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Posted: January 17, 2015, 9:32 Post #29
;dd Did someone mentioned about SpeedDemosArchive ? you guys really rule indeed out there speeding up ingames and ive been watching plenty of your vids before through years! Sorry about the fangasm, but i seriously enjoyed almost every speedrun posted XD.
Perhaps you could do a refreshed RF (incorporated with PF ofc if possible) speedrun with all those guys sitting next to you and watching in the old fashion way such as you did with Castlevania games and others hehe!! :D
Edited by SeeLkaDooM94 at January 17, 2015, 9:41

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Duane Jones
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Posted: January 18, 2015, 4:22 Post #30
haha. I'm just one guy that happens to be very small part of the community over there at SDA. I've never even been to one of those marathons D:


Quoting SeeLkaDooM94
Perhaps you could do a refreshed RF (incorporated with PF ofc if possible) speedrun with all those guys sitting next to you and watching in the old fashion way such as you did with Castlevania games and others hehe!! :D


Hopefully, if people are pumped for the run. That would be awesome

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